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Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths
http://www.paia.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=679
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Author:  silverboxmusic [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Hello to whomever will read this post!

I have a PAiA P9700S synth that I love and play regularly. I would like to use my Midi2CV8 module to control my Minimoog model D (and/or my Moog Taurus II which is identical to a Moog Rogue) . I vaguely recall reading somewhere about various synths using difference control voltages. I have also read that special cables are needed in some cases, i.e. TRS to TS, etc.

First, will the Midi2CV8 work with properly controlling my Moog synths? If so, do I need to make any special cables that have TRS on one end and TS on the other? Or does shorting the RING/SLEEVE in the Midi2CV8 TRS jacks with a mono 1/8" cable accomplish the same thing? So far, I made a 1/8" TS to Cinch-Jones connector and plugged it into the trigger output of the Midi2CV8 and into the trigger input of the Minimoog and nothing happened. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I understand that in order to play the Minimoog remotely, I need a trigger as well as a pitch CV, but when the trigger didn't work, I figured I may as well stop there and try to figure out what the issue is. Then, I can move on from there.

Any help or input from anyone on this would be helpful and greatly appreciated!

Best Regards,

Nathan

Author:  silverboxmusic [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Update: I plugged a TS 1/8" cable from the trigger output of the MIDI2CV8 into the Cinch-Jones connector on the Minimoog and it causes the Moog to stay on constantly. There is no on/off trigger function as the Moog just holds a steady note. I then plugged another cable from the pitch out of the MIDI2CV8 and it works but the scaling is very off. Is this because the Moog starts on an F note and the MIDI2CV8 is scaled to start on C? I restarted the MIDI2CV8 and made the first "note-off" message an F instead of a C and the scaling was a bit better, but still off after the first octave or so. In regards to my trigger issue, I'm wondering if my wires on the Cinch-Jones connector could be reversed? Does the tip go to the narrow blade or the wide blade?

I've made some progress but could still use a bit of advice to get it working properly. Thanks so much!

Nathan

Author:  ModularMe [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

To start, you can check Scott's reply to a similiar situation: "PAiA 9700 MIDI-to-CV unit and Realistic (Moog) MG-1"
http://www.paia.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=278&start=0&hilit=moog

and there is other information on Moog gates/triggers, and conversion between systems using a special cable that can be purchased or built (one transistor circuit) at http://www.synthesizers.com/gates.html .

Author:  toneman [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

ModularMe,
EXCELLENT links for the different types of triggers!!

There's more info on S-triggers here:(CV) here:
http://www.kentonuk.com/info/midi-cv-info.shtml

Author:  silverboxmusic [ Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Thanks for the replies! That is definitely helpful and gives me a place to start. I think Scott clarified a lot in the conversation with the other person in regards to what's happening on the 9700 end. It sounds like I'll need to make up some cables with the correct tip/ring configuration, as well as possibly making one of those cables that has the S-Trig circuitry built in. The links you guys posted were full of great info as well. I appreciate your time and help!

Best,

Nathan

Author:  PAiA-Scott [ Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Hello Nathan and thanks for your replies ModularMe, Toneman.

The transistor wouldn't need to be added when interfacing the MIDI2CV8. It includes this transistor and the connections to it/them is via the Ring of a TRS plug inserted to the MIDI2CV8 output. When making a cable for this, one wire joins the ring terminal of a trs plug to the switch terminal (narrow) of a Cinch-Jones plug and the other wire joins the sleeve terminal to the ground (wide) terminal of the Cinch-Jones plug.

Author:  silverboxmusic [ Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Scott,

Thanks for your reply and helpful information...I appreciate it. I will go ahead and make the appropriate cable to connect the MIDI2CV8 to the Minimoog...looking forward to it!!!

So for clarification, if the ring of the MIDI2CV8 "trigger" jack (3) is to be used for sending trigger signals, is the ring of the MIDI2CV8 "gate" jack (4) used for sending a gate signal? Obviously, this wouldn't be used in Cinch-Jones/Minimoog, but my Moog Taurus II (same as Moog Rogue) has an input for S-Trig and V-Trig (S input on the tip and V input on the ring) and I am curious if the ring of the MIDI2CV8 gate jack will work like the ring on the trigger jack does?

Lastly, is it possible to "fry" anything or "burn" anything up when experimenting with CV between synths by using the wrong type of cable? i.e. TS in place of TRS or vice versa? The main reason for asking this particular question, is because I also want to experiement with using my MIDI2CV8 to interface with my PAiA Proteus I synth, which some of the connectors are TS...and I don't want to mess anything up. Knowing that the MIDI2CV8 has TRS connectors and some of the Proteus I aren't, I just want to make sure there will be no issues...which I know the MIDI2CV8 accounts for with the transistor, but I'm not sure if the Proteus does or not.

Thanks again for your help and input, and sorry if these are elementary questions. I have played synths for many years, but never spent much time interfacing them with each other.

Best Regards,

Nathan

Author:  RoyGwinn [ Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Use the GATE from the Midi2CV to the Moog trigger input. The GATE stays on all the time a key is pressed, and the TRIGGER is a short blip only when a key is first pressed. Not all synths need the trigger.

Roy Gwinn

Author:  PAiA-Scott [ Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Thanks Roy.

For the Moog with the combined trigger input connector, you have two choices when interfacing with the MIDI2CV8 -- the tip of the output connector is the voltage signal and the ring of the output connector is the Open Collector (O.C.). The O.C. node can operate Switch-trigger (S-trigger) inputs. So either wire a TipSleeve (TS) plug Tip (MIDI2CV8) to a TipRingSleeve (TRS) plug Ring (Moog), or, wire a TRS plug (MIDI2CV8) Ring to a TRS Tip (Moog). The sleeve wires to the sleeve of each plug for either cable.

Below is a diagram for the 8750 Proteus rear-panel Patch Bay with details as to whether the connectors are for input, output, CV, or audio. Note the Gate connector is Output; however, the second link below is to a diagram of the back-plane board incorporating the Patch Bay and keyboard (pitch CV and Gate-trigger) circuitry with details for adapting the Gate connector to be Input or Output.

8750 Proteus Patch Bay Details

8750 Proteus Gate Modification

Author:  silverboxmusic [ Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Needed with 9700 Midi2CV8 to control Moog Synths

Scott and others,

Thank you so much for the clarification and all of the helpful information you have provided. I really appreciate it. I feel that I now have enough information to make some correct cabling to interface my synths. I'll post again if any hurdles come up or if any further questions arise.

Best,

Nathan

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